Jack Baruth on traffic laws

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
10/04/2018 at 12:31 • Filed to: None

Your thoughts? I don’t run reds, but I will scoot through yellows. I do exceed the speed limit , regularly, but not in an unsafe manner. I only come to a “full & complete” stop at stop signs if there are other cars around (manual transmission - slow to a near stop, and then 2nd gear crawl) . Seems like lots of traffic laws are akin to painted lines on the side of the road, not concrete curbs. They’re meant to keep you and other drivers as safe as possible while doing the most dangerous thing most of us will do each day, and to keep everything flowing well.

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DISCUSSION (34)

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/04/2018 at 12:54

- Observing the spirit of the law is of greater importance rather obeying the letter

- Don’t make yourself a hazard others have to avoid

- Look out for cops and be aware if you’re caught it’s your own damn fault (by which I in no way insinuate the law is or is not correct, simply that you made the call--your baby)

Chariotoflove > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/04/2018 at 12:55

While we’re asking the motoring equivalent of existential questions (without beer, too, I might add), here’s another for you: Why do people who obey traffic laws in their cars (e.g: stop signs, red lights, sidewalks) routinely ignore them when riding bikes, a time when they are the most vulnerable to catastrophe due to unpredictability?

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Chariotoflove
10/04/2018 at 12:59

Every bike is sold with a free sense of entitlement

But seriously, I think those people are most aware of the bike’s vulnerabilities and therefore are courteous to them, and somehow translate that into “every driver must give way to me” rather than thinking of the weakness of the car, namely it’s heavier than you and physics doesn’t care.

CobraJoe > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/04/2018 at 12:59

What’s the difference between speeding and running a red light?

Speeding alone does not cause an accident.

The biggest dangers of speeding are a loss of control, or a car (or person) pulling out in front of you. Both of those situations are fairly easy to avoid with some situational and environmental awareness, especially if the speeding is limited to 10 or so mph over the limit.

Running a red light alone can cause an accident.

Unless the speeds are very low, you won’t have time to look for or react to cross traffic, and they will not be looking for you.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/04/2018 at 13:04

Ah t he orgininal Lord of automotive Hot Takes Mr. Baruth.

I live in a small city, pop 35, 000 but never do the speed limit. W hat you want me to get tailgated and honked at all the time do you?

5 over minimum, up to 10 over only on freeways, plus I run a radar detector.

Yellows yeah if I can make it safely before red. I know my car. isn’t that what yellows are for? Plus blowing thru reds has bigger consequences than speeding above the limit where everyone’s going the same way and you see what everyone around is doing.

I a lways come to a f ull s top. I respect the double yellow line. I will always signal, even if I am the very last person driving on earth. cant one take the effort to flick a finger and tap a switch? One of the easiest and simplest things you can do to make you and others safer. Just freaking tell them “ i want to turn/ merge”

Party-vi > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/04/2018 at 13:04

Jack B aruth bloviates about nothing and gets a check. More at 11.

Chariotoflove > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
10/04/2018 at 13:05

See, what I encounter on my rides is most cars being extra deferential to me. They wave me through intersections, even when they have right of way and stuff. I turn down the offers when I can. I think departing from the established laws creates unpredictability and danger for everyone. I understand why they do it, though. To them, it’s not just courtesy, it’s necessary, because bikers in our area can’t be trusted.

benjrblant > Chariotoflove
10/04/2018 at 13:06

I often find myself doing this and I’ve often thought about it. On my bicycle, I have a lot more sweat and energy into getting that thing up to 20mph. Particularly on an incline, the effort spent to stop and bring it back to 20mph is much greater than simply pressing an accelerator.

I’m fully aware that this is no valid excuse to run a stop sign and I’m fully aware that cyclists are not exempt from traffic laws, but on a 60 mile ride that’s burning 2600 calories, the last thing I really want to do is stop at every sign and add another thirty 0-20mph sprints.

lone_liberal > CobraJoe
10/04/2018 at 13:08

Speeding is too vague a term to really compare things. Speeding on an empty interstate is different than speeding through an occupied school zone . Sometimes speeding is harmless, sometimes it’s not. Running a red light is always hazardous and always endangers not only yourself but other drivers .

Spanfeller is a twat > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/04/2018 at 13:09

I always drive with my safety, the safety of those around me, and my comfort in mind. I care little to nothing about traffic laws unless it’s the night time. Cops only enforce traffic laws at night because its a way to spot drunk drivers.

Spanfeller is a twat > Chariotoflove
10/04/2018 at 13:10

Where I live cyclists are allowed to run red lights.

I think it makes sense because cyclists take much longer to get up to speed than cars, if they filter between the traffic and gain a little advantage, they slow cars a bit less.

ToyotaFamily > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/04/2018 at 13:13

I got pulled over recently for doing what you do at a stop sign. I just flat out told the cop that I stopped for what felt like a sufficient amount of time and left it at that.

It was 10 PM on an empty road, I’m sure he thought I was taking the road to avoid DUI checkpoints or something.

Chariotoflove > benjrblant
10/04/2018 at 13:14

I do understand that, but.. . My perspective these days is from a hand cycle, not from my old Colnago. It’s even more difficult to get back up to speed with a 35 lb. machine run by arm power rather than a 15 lb one run by legs. But I always come to a complete stop and signal, because I was almost killed thanks to the unpredictability of a kid in a Pontiac. That was 30 years ago.

It’s a lesson I never want you or anyone else to have to learn like I did. I’m not chastising you, I am begging you and anyone else who reads this . Please, don’t trust those drivers to see you and be as cautious as they should. They can make a mistake and walk away because they have air bags. You don’t. All it takes is one.

bhtooefr > benjrblant
10/04/2018 at 13:15

Also worth noting that a cyclist is usually much further to the front of their vehicle than a motorist, can stop quite quickly, is more upright than many drivers, and has no pillars in the way blocking vision.

So, a cyclist can get closer to the intersection before entering it, and can see cross traffic more e asily.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/04/2018 at 13:15

Stop signs and lights are definitive traffic control devices that come with expectations of being obeyed by other affected traffic.

Speed limits are the maximum reasonable speed that can be driven in average conditions on a roadway. Pushing limits by 10% doesn’t drastically change that fundamental idea . Running a red or racing a yellow could actually have a real consequence of an accident.

Chariotoflove > Spanfeller is a twat
10/04/2018 at 13:17

I don’t even know what to think about that. It sounds like just a little bit more anarchy in everyone’s commute.

Chariotoflove > Chariotoflove
10/04/2018 at 13:18

ETA: but if that’s the law, then it’s the law. The worst is when people ignore the laws and make their own. That’s maximum anarchy and danger.

Textured Soy Protein > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/04/2018 at 13:21

I generally don’t fuck with running yellows because there are too many red light cameras around me.

Even though my car is plenty fast, t he time it takes to think about whether I want to try to make the yellow , downshift, and floor it, is enough that that if the yellow isn’t fresh, I might still be slightly in the intersection when the light turns red. A red light camera doesn’t care if it’s only your trunk that’s in the intersection.

If I’m pretty sure I can make a yellow , I also have to make sure there’s enough room up ahead, because if I do bang a downshift and floor it, next thing you know I’m doing 70 or something stupid and I don’t want to have to drop the anchor right after the intersection. Also, the fact that I’m doing that kind of speed a bright blue BMW making BWAAAAAAAAAA PSSSSHHHHHHHH noises won’t be good if a cop happens to be nearby.

If there’s a nice fresh yellow and I’m close enough to the intersection that I can unquestionably make it through without unleashing the full BWAAAAAAA , then I’ll probably go for it.

Spanfeller is a twat > Chariotoflove
10/04/2018 at 13:23

I mean it includes some provisions: it must be in the day, they must yield to pedestrians , and it must be in stop and go traffic (or with the roadway empty until the next block irrc) . Since bicycles do little to reduce roadway capacity, it’s not a big deal.

fintail > CobraJoe
10/04/2018 at 13:26

Not to mention that speed limits are often set with flawed or arbitrary reasoning.

CobraJoe > lone_liberal
10/04/2018 at 13:31

Speeding is too vague a term to really compare things. Speeding on an empty interstate is different than speeding through an occupied school zone.

Fair point, but I would imagine that “speeding” would also presume that there is enough room on the road to go faster than the speed limit.

Also, I did mention that some situational and environmental awareness can make a little speeding a lot safer. Noticing that there’s an occ upied school zone ahead would certainly be a lot easier to react to than a car approaching at a 90 degree angle to you at 45mph.

Texasfoolontherule > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/04/2018 at 13:40

Stop signs are not yield signs. The intention is to come to a complete stop to observe both vehicular and pedestrian traffic. Especially at night this is important. I saw a guy nearly kill a few kids rolling a stop sign. No cars but kids in street at night. I too drive a stick. Stop. Wiggle through neutral then go on. Don’t be lazy because you could kill someones kid.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Chariotoflove
10/04/2018 at 13:43

This also applies in car-to-car situations. Just TAKE your right of way. It’ll be easier for both of us. Don’t take mine though.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ToyotaFamily
10/04/2018 at 13:45

So, just a warning?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Party-vi
10/04/2018 at 13:45

Don’t you wish you could?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Texasfoolontherule
10/04/2018 at 13:54

Point taken. I’m really not treating them as yields - I slow to the point where I just barely have any forward momentum left, just short of a full stop. And I’m never rolling through in 2nd unless I have a full, clear view of anything and everything at the intersection. The last 10 miles to my house is country roads with 4 ways stops every couple miles. There’s basically zero pedestrian traffic.

Texasfoolontherule > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/04/2018 at 13:57

Understood. I think the country road rules are quite different than the suburban and urban areas.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Texasfoolontherule
10/04/2018 at 13:58

Stop signs are mostly a misnomer and should be replaced by signs that read “PAUSE ”. Not yield signs, because that seems to translate to “if I don’t see anyone don’t even look at the brakes”, but PAUSE because it reflects a perfectly reasonable behaviour in slowing down as far as necessary to ascertain there are no obstacles, and then proceeding.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > benjrblant
10/04/2018 at 14:02

My logic is based on the general principal of don’t interfere with me and I won’t care. Run all the stop signs you want on your bike. If you get hit don’t blame me. There’s two supporting reasons I don’t care:

- Stopping and starting all the time on a bike is a lot more exertion than pushing the gas. I get it. Plus, stopping sucks balls no matter what :)

- Bikes can get a lot closer to the intersection before slowing, and can stop a lot faster if needed. This means they can cruise right up to it and make the call to go through at the last second.

So, I get it and I don’t care... as long as you’re not jumping in front of people without looking.

Chariotoflove > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
10/04/2018 at 14:32

Agreed.

ToyotaFamily > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/04/2018 at 14:50

Yeah, just got a warning. I was starting to worry for a bit because he had me waiting for a while.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > lone_liberal
10/04/2018 at 15:54

For the record, I’m of the opinion that running reds is much more dangerous than speeding.

That being said, I think there are circumstances where running reds, with situational awareness, is safe. I’m thinking in the desert, or m idwest, in the middle of nowhere. The land is flat, barren, and you can see for many many miles in every direction. Traffic is almost non-existent in some of these places. Yet there are roads with 4 way stops, or even traffic signals. I’m not saying you should run a red, but if you were to, it should be in a place like this.

jimz > Party-vi
11/07/2018 at 20:58

Party-vi,

I know I said I wouldn’t, but I was a liar. may I request my Oppo authorship privileges back?

Party-vi > jimz
11/08/2018 at 08:40

Donezo. Use the flag/dismiss button or get one of the Mod’s attention if you have issues with someone.